ti_titan

I'm new to this forum, or any forum at all for that matter. Hoping someone with extensive knowledge could help with a few things. I'd like to know in what order will be best for my effects to be set up. As of right now, this is what I have:

93' American Standard Strat >
Boss TU3 Tuner >
Crybaby Wah >
Boss Noise Suppressor NS2 > (send)
MXR Dyna Comp >
TS808 >
Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive >
Boss DS1 Distortion > (return to NS2)
Boss Noise Suppressor NS2 > (output)
Ernie Ball Volume >
Line 6 DL4 >
TC Nova Delay >
Digitech Whammy >
VOX AC15 Amp

All the stuff is nice, but to me its just stuff if I can't achieve the tone I'm looking for. Your input is more than appreciated.

goodbyetonto

Take a look here at this link:
Guitar Pedal Board Layouts

As he notes, order matters and then it does not matter. It all depends on what sound u are trying to get. If you put modulation effects before time based effects, you will get a different sound than if you did it the opposite. Consider what would happen if you put your tremolo before your compression. It would sort of defeat having tremolo as your compressor would change the dynamics of tbe tremolo. Hope that helps.

darkhorse

This is a new board I just made with all new pedals. The lower level is amp-in and is tilted like I prefer, and the upper level is for the amp loop and is flat adjusted. Power brick and other feeds are under the shelf and coming through the back.

I dig where you are coming from, I am a pedal addict for a great many years more than I care to count. Position and where to put things is rather infinite. I hate the guys who say "there are no rules", sure there are and some things sound better sound physics wise than others. Some things might give you some sort of weird-ed out tone but will be more so a one trick pony than all that useful. Each player has to decide what they are after and set your rig accordingly. I demand a lot of options from my rig by my three channel amp head and board choices provide major coolness.

I like my rig to have the most options in tones that are possible, I might be in the mood to play some clean chorus into delay or get a heavy Trower Vibe pulse on the Vibe or go Jeff Beck cool tones.

If you are asking where I arrange your gear I would need to know of you have an amp loop and what major tone styles are you after. Sometimes the best solution is dividing out into a pedal by pass switcher pedal to set off pedals that need to sound together but perhaps not others.

You're like me we always get too much and try to rig it in. I am pretty good at it and my signal is so crafted I use no noise gate or noise reduction. Sometimes you need them to control uber gain as the feedback and such or noise floor hum gets to much and they also offer position problems of their own. I see if there is any response and we can discuss further.

MonkeyBoy

Great question, and great advice !!
My $.02 .....

Timed effects thru the effects loop w/delay being last.
Tone shaping into face of amp.
Those are just general guide-lines I go by.
I have "Dozens" of pedals, why I don't know.
I've realized that guitar/amp tone rules.
I like the option of putting something in, or taking it out as I please.
I currently don't use many, or much, anymore.
Chorus and Delay are my prefered effects "all the time".
Now all I care for is extra lingering of delay for Solos.
The Boss DD 20 trails after changing setting or turning off. Kewl !
I run Chorus then Delay thru Effects Loop, making my foundation sound fatter,
then a little delay slap-back (cause I hate reverb) then leave them on.
My guitar goes to my Wah, TU3, BB preamp (use this to beef up clean channel), then into MesaBoogie LoneStar Classic.
I've always liked chorus for filler.
Simple setup, but I'm still lacking the extra delay for Solos so I stuck a DD3 after the BB. Not happy yet, but gettn there.
Keep experimenting, it's the right thing to do. But as little of a effect that I use (nothing over 3) I enjoy the effects loop route, with the rest going into the amp face.
(I hate runnin the effects loop to my pedalboard so my CH20 & DD20 sit on the Boogie)
Happy Pic'n !!!

darkhorse

I've changed my board some since that last old pic.
Dropped the Rivera OD and now use a Wampler Ecstasy. Dropped all the hard coupler connectors and now make my own custom soldered cables.
All modulation in the amp loop, except for the Vibe which I like into darker voiced and sometimes gained amp channels.

If the DD20 trails, it is not true bypass, all my pedals w the option switches either cut off off in true bypass or trail on buffer. Boss is not normally known for bypass wiring been a while since I had that unit. Presets were cool, wish more units would allow that option. I love reverb myself but prefer the Lexicon tones of my pedals verses any amp reverb. Gets me that cool long throw reverb space like Beck or Pagey, tone stays intact with the pedal unlike a lot of amp reverbs I have had that tend to loose the central tone and body, not into that surfy kind of old reverb.

Chain is:
Radial PB1 (high end buffer and adjustable clean class A boost)
EH Q Tron Plus (thinking of trying something different)
MXR/CAE Bradshaw dual inductor/boost wah
Wampler Ecstacy Drive
Ibanez Tube King Dist (really a great sounding unit, real tube 100v internal)
Fulltone DejaVibe >>>>amp in

(Just a lot of options, maybe have 1 or 2 pedals on at one time just like a lot of colors to paint with. My amp is a 3 channel that can gain up with the best of them. Plan on adding a 2nd amp and stereo feed my amp loop pedals into the amp loops.)

Amp loop:
Hardwire PH7 Phaser
TC TonePrint Corona Chorus
TC TonePrint Flashback Delay
Hardwire RV7 Reverb
BBE SonicMaximizer

MonkeyBoy

Great stuff darkhorse ...

Like your way of thinking !

Very minimal yet options rule ... Seems I prefer that too
I must be getting old !

I have a pic of my old GigPro setup in my pics now. Im using about 1/3 of that currently, in a much lighter-smaller case.
I may go back to looping from the pedal box to use some pre-sets & address my delay length issue during solos. And YES, the DD20 is not true bypass. Hope I didnt indicate that. If I did, Im mistaken and apologize.
But I still think the "trail" effect is Grrrrrreat !!! I hate cutting off a nice delay, or a quick foot can insert one. I like that.
No one box can do everything, so ya go with what is most dependable and cost effective.

Great info here !!! I like alot of what Ive read. Good to be here ~!

__________________
"It doesn't matter until you don't care"
Gibson/MesaBoogie/Boss/Eventide/Dunlop/Xotic
LesPaul-CryBaby-TU3-BB Preamp
Mesa Boogie F30 w/MBLS 2-12 Cab.
(also have LS Classic Head 23).
Effects Loop -- CH20 -- Timefactor -- DD20

darkhorse

OH I agree with the trail off effect, I get that from the mere repeats on my delay when I just stop playing and let the repeats trail off, major cool effect. Sometimes a dead stop is appropriate but I love that final delay trail off or the Reverb carrying it off into the distance. That is just good stuff.

I have my Reverb set on true bypass so it cuts off when switched out so I tend not to kill it during any phrasing. My delay would kill the trail off if I chopped it off right away but I let it exhaust its repeats before killing the loop.

I have learned to love great Reverb over the years which holds the body and heaviness of my tone but adds that space, depth and sustain one hears on Pagey's latter pieces or Beck's great Reverb tone which is often so much better than an actual repeat.

Of all the amps I have had over the years from the "real" Reverbs and such, I can see why a lot of players hate Reverb. Maybe it's like delays you have to shop around for the best one for your rig chemistry, but I have to say that Hardwire Reverb w its Lexicon circuitry is just outstanding and very musical.

I got mine for a sales goof up, miss print, on Muscian's Friend for only $50, just love it. A nice series of pedals those Hardwire. I feel that way about the TC Toneprint series as well. I also have to rave a little about the BBE sonic maximizer pedal, I have that puppy on all the time just adds a punch and clarity, but is natural to the tone and is very transparent (keep controls around 12:00). It corrects the frequency phase issue on the speakers and is really not an effect (or should not sound like one). I love it myself. Really does sound like uncovering a blanket off your amp but really a natural openness. For $100 it is probably my fav pedal of all time for the enhancement it brings, makes a good tone sound great.

Digressing further, I confess I did not like the TC Mojo overdrive and sent it back, same with the Rivera Shaman which I had high hopes for. Just was not my touch, tone or feel. when I came across the Wampler Ecstasy OD I stopped looking. A fantastic range pedal w 3 different diode modes into a quality op amp and a range of super clean to dirt that nothing has, very transparent and open feeling. (Not a TS clone pedal) Wampler is my fav pedal maker and I look to them first if I want a new OD or high gain pedal. They also have a cool delay and chorus which I would love to have but $200 a pedal is a lot for me. I get a lot of my gear on the 2 vendors I can do a payment plan with for no interest or credit hassle.

What I have right now in the way of the Ecstasy and the Ibanez Tube King really brings the tone on my rig in all sorts of combinations. Sometimes it's just my amp alone but nice to kick on an enhancement to an already great tone.

My Radial buffer also has a nice adjustable clean class A boost which I use in various combinations to bring a little more kick. I can say at this point I would like to have the Wampler Compressor which is a really great unit. It has a cool blend knobbie which allows you to not let the compression squeeze your tone too much.

I would easily let go of the Q Tron for another envelope filter type, perhaps the Xiotic. I like having one around but like my wah does not get used much, just like having it there verses missing it when it is not in chain.

Nothing wrong with having some buffer circuit pedals, too many bypass or buffered is not cool for best tone. Best to make a sandwich if you can of buffer on the ends and bypass in the middle. I try to hold to that as much as possible. Having the high end buffer first in chain opened up the real sound of my rig so much I find I do not need a buffer in my loop although things may change when I add another amp (sending out a plea to Santa).

Over the years I have struggle with all manner of pedal positions, A/B testing, I seem to always end up with my modulation in my amp loop which just offers the best options for my tones. You can certainly run a phaser into OD or dirt or a gained amp channel and get something cool, but I find it is limited just to that tone and effect. Same with a chorus into the amp, but trying to gain the amp up on high gain or running the chorus into any dirt just befuddles the effect for me and the beauty of the chorus itself. Nothing more beautiful than a full ranging chorus into a delay through the loop. Add a front end compressor on that and it is a touch of heaven.

The exception to that rule for me is the Vibe effect which I tend to like mine after any dirt pedals or OD as it never sounds that good to me before them. Even Trower runs his ODs on low gain.

I find having my Vibe after my OD or tube dist pedal makes for a better tone with them on and the option of not having them also works. Running the Vibe into a gained up amp channel can produce a cool feedback prone warble of which I find the tube amp itself to be vastly better than into a pedal gain. Most trying to get that EVH phaser thing running it into a dirt box really do not get Eddie got that monster tone into gained Marshall, a pedal is not an amp and an amp is not a pedal. The same with trying to get the really heavier darker Trower Vibe tone, works better into the amp than a pedal, Trower's overdrive are more clean boosts than dirt to push the tubes harder. His tend to boost the output of the Vibe pedal to overdrive the amp rather than have the Vibe come through a pedal gain.

Do tend to like having sort of a "one of each" type of thing for getting some different colors to paint with, some think I have too many, but really I feel like Satriani said of pedals that "they expand the range and creativity of the guitar". I always follow the "less is more" philosophy of effects and try to get the most tone out of them rather than shear whacked out processing. I try to tell the young players that all that processing is fun and a goof but if you try that with a band it is not going to work. Even a lot of these high gain uber metal bands end up with a pretty generic same ol tone live because in the studio they can control the gain and mix to make things come out. There is an art to getting a heavy sound and still have heaviness and depth to it. One reason I do not care for all these low watt easy breakup amps, no low end and no body to the tones. I am a half stack guy myself.

My latest rig, note all modulation moved to the loop (upper level) except for the Vibe. the BBE on the lower level but still last in chain in the loop. I made this board, like my 4th one, a bit of fun really.

MonkeyBoy

Definitely. I Believe in the "Less is More" philosophy too ....

__________________
"It doesn't matter until you don't care"
Gibson/MesaBoogie/Boss/Eventide/Dunlop/Xotic
LesPaul-CryBaby-TU3-BB Preamp
Mesa Boogie F30 w/MBLS 2-12 Cab.
(also have LS Classic Head 23).
Effects Loop -- CH20 -- Timefactor -- DD20

MonkeyBoy

I'm back to the effects loop w/ DD20, CH20, and Eventide TF.
BB into face of amp .... The effects loop in MesaLS and F30 sounds so lush I couldn't resist.
Will take pic soon. I might mention I've added the MesaLS 2x12 cab to the F30 and it sounds great !!!

__________________
"It doesn't matter until you don't care"
Gibson/MesaBoogie/Boss/Eventide/Dunlop/Xotic
LesPaul-CryBaby-TU3-BB Preamp
Mesa Boogie F30 w/MBLS 2-12 Cab.
(also have LS Classic Head 23).
Effects Loop -- CH20 -- Timefactor -- DD20

darkhorse

I love having a board, always been an effect pedal proponent. One reason I tried and abandoned the multi-effect processors is one tends to turn on too much crap and over process everything. Much better truer tone with pedals and you can get the most out of them. Sometimes I will spend an hour goofing with just my drive pedal. I learned a long time ago playing in bands that too much going on is not going to carry well in the over all mix of the band. You need a strong basic killer tone to come through and hold that groove.

The amp loop is a real important feature that probably few get the purpose of why or how it works. Getting higher bandwidth and full range effects after all sense of preamping just makes logical sense. Does anyone think a delay sounds better on amp in??